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	<title>Comments on: Sixty Years of Nakbah and Israel Independence Day</title>
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	<description>Discuss And Analyze Middle East Political Issues</description>
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		<title>By: links for 2008-07-22</title>
		<link>http://www.middleastpost.com/187/sixty-years-of-nakbah-and-israel-independence-day/comment-page-1/#comment-406</link>
		<dc:creator>links for 2008-07-22</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Tue, 22 Jul 2008 05:22:35 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleastpost.com/?p=187#comment-406</guid>
		<description>[...] Sixty Years of Nakbah and Israel Independence Day [...]</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>[...] Sixty Years of Nakbah and Israel Independence Day [...]</p>
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		<title>By: Ron Rosenfeld</title>
		<link>http://www.middleastpost.com/187/sixty-years-of-nakbah-and-israel-independence-day/comment-page-1/#comment-295</link>
		<dc:creator>Ron Rosenfeld</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Thu, 22 May 2008 12:23:27 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>I was born in Palestine 1944 (I have my original birth certificate to prove it).
As a kid I lived in Hatavor st Tel Aviv (about half a mile from Hassan Beck mosque) my mother used to take me thru M anshieh to Bostrus street in Jaffa for shopping.I was a 4 year old kid at the time .After May 1948 I used to play on the ruins of Manshieh and the Mosque was deserted.I was told the Arabs of Jaffa escaped because of the war and the ruins of Manshieh are a result of the war.It took me 20 years to learn i was lied to.
Out 0f a population of 120000 arabs in Jaffa just 3600 were left and stuffed into a slum neighborhood called Ajami.The same procees applied to Lydda,Al Ramle,Acre,Majdal(now Ashkelon) altogether around 500 villages were destroyed by my own people and around 750000 native arab palestinians became refugees.
To make the issue short - The only way to peace is the One state Solutiion with more or less South Africa as a model.The Jews will have to abolish the racist &quot;law of return&quot; and adapt the &quot;right of return &quot; for the palestinian refugees and their descendants - the Palestinian arabs will have to accept the fact that over 5 million jews live mtoday in Historic Palestine and will have to shre the land with them.
This is the only solution that can bring peace and prosperity to Palestine.
Until then we will have the memory of the Nakbah on may 15 every year.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>I was born in Palestine 1944 (I have my original birth certificate to prove it).<br />
As a kid I lived in Hatavor st Tel Aviv (about half a mile from Hassan Beck mosque) my mother used to take me thru M anshieh to Bostrus street in Jaffa for shopping.I was a 4 year old kid at the time .After May 1948 I used to play on the ruins of Manshieh and the Mosque was deserted.I was told the Arabs of Jaffa escaped because of the war and the ruins of Manshieh are a result of the war.It took me 20 years to learn i was lied to.<br />
Out 0f a population of 120000 arabs in Jaffa just 3600 were left and stuffed into a slum neighborhood called Ajami.The same procees applied to Lydda,Al Ramle,Acre,Majdal(now Ashkelon) altogether around 500 villages were destroyed by my own people and around 750000 native arab palestinians became refugees.<br />
To make the issue short &#8211; The only way to peace is the One state Solutiion with more or less South Africa as a model.The Jews will have to abolish the racist &#8220;law of return&#8221; and adapt the &#8220;right of return &#8221; for the palestinian refugees and their descendants &#8211; the Palestinian arabs will have to accept the fact that over 5 million jews live mtoday in Historic Palestine and will have to shre the land with them.<br />
This is the only solution that can bring peace and prosperity to Palestine.<br />
Until then we will have the memory of the Nakbah on may 15 every year.</p>
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		<title>By: Palestinian Jew</title>
		<link>http://www.middleastpost.com/187/sixty-years-of-nakbah-and-israel-independence-day/comment-page-1/#comment-267</link>
		<dc:creator>Palestinian Jew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 17:46:03 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleastpost.com/?p=187#comment-267</guid>
		<description>Thanks Ziad.

Ruth, I just read the article you sent by Kenneth Levin on &quot;Frontpagemagazine&quot; (http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F66256B6-688A-45AE-9252-CF9758750035)

I was not familiar with this american web-magazine, but a look at its &quot;front page&quot; titles unequivocally defines it as zionist right-wing hardline media.

M. Levin basically says there&#039;s something clinically wrong with Israelis who were in favour of the Oslo peace process, and by extension with Israeli leftists: they suffer mental illness.

Now, if this type of discourse does not immediately ring a &quot;DANGER&quot; bell to a History major like you, Ruth, you should get your money back from your university.

This is typically what totalitarian regimes did: opponents are labelled as deranged by a doctor. The accusation of being mentally ill is one of the most classic ways to avoid debate and shut up opposition as has been done in the Stalinist era, and in Nazi Germany.

Just bone-chilling. Funny though: he forgot to mention the paranoia of right-wing Israelis as another pathology.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Thanks Ziad.</p>
<p>Ruth, I just read the article you sent by Kenneth Levin on &#8220;Frontpagemagazine&#8221; (<a href="http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F66256B6-688A-45AE-9252-CF9758750035" rel="nofollow">http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/Read.aspx?GUID=F66256B6-688A-45AE-9252-CF9758750035</a>)</p>
<p>I was not familiar with this american web-magazine, but a look at its &#8220;front page&#8221; titles unequivocally defines it as zionist right-wing hardline media.</p>
<p>M. Levin basically says there&#8217;s something clinically wrong with Israelis who were in favour of the Oslo peace process, and by extension with Israeli leftists: they suffer mental illness.</p>
<p>Now, if this type of discourse does not immediately ring a &#8220;DANGER&#8221; bell to a History major like you, Ruth, you should get your money back from your university.</p>
<p>This is typically what totalitarian regimes did: opponents are labelled as deranged by a doctor. The accusation of being mentally ill is one of the most classic ways to avoid debate and shut up opposition as has been done in the Stalinist era, and in Nazi Germany.</p>
<p>Just bone-chilling. Funny though: he forgot to mention the paranoia of right-wing Israelis as another pathology.</p>
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		<title>By: Ziad Abu Zayyad</title>
		<link>http://www.middleastpost.com/187/sixty-years-of-nakbah-and-israel-independence-day/comment-page-1/#comment-266</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziad Abu Zayyad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 16:22:13 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleastpost.com/?p=187#comment-266</guid>
		<description>&quot;You know that, and reluctance to admit the problem is just slowing down any progress&quot;

Palestinian Jews your sentence should be the headline of every day sentence that our leaders should remember.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8220;You know that, and reluctance to admit the problem is just slowing down any progress&#8221;</p>
<p>Palestinian Jews your sentence should be the headline of every day sentence that our leaders should remember.</p>
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		<title>By: Palestinian Jew</title>
		<link>http://www.middleastpost.com/187/sixty-years-of-nakbah-and-israel-independence-day/comment-page-1/#comment-265</link>
		<dc:creator>Palestinian Jew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 15:56:32 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleastpost.com/?p=187#comment-265</guid>
		<description>1. Thank you for that, Ruth. Glad you&#039;ve admitted that Israel &quot;sometimes&quot; violates the UDHR. Except for articles 1&amp;2, which are not &quot;sometimes&quot;, but constantly violated, and denied in their principle, by the very laws of Israel, unlike in all western democracies.

2. Of course you&#039;re right about the distinction between General Assembly non-binding resolutions (there are only 4 of them) and Security Council resolutions (more than 50 ). But obviously when people refer to resolutions in this context it means Security Council resolutions.

In fact, I&#039;ll tell you what I have in mind in particular: the territories occupied after the Israel &quot;preemptive agression&quot; of 1967.


As you know, To regain any moral credibility, and be on the right side of Public International Law, Israel should simply give those territories back, and stop settlements ASAP.

You know that, and reluctance to admit the problem is just slowing down any progress.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>1. Thank you for that, Ruth. Glad you&#8217;ve admitted that Israel &#8220;sometimes&#8221; violates the UDHR. Except for articles 1&amp;2, which are not &#8220;sometimes&#8221;, but constantly violated, and denied in their principle, by the very laws of Israel, unlike in all western democracies.</p>
<p>2. Of course you&#8217;re right about the distinction between General Assembly non-binding resolutions (there are only 4 of them) and Security Council resolutions (more than 50 ). But obviously when people refer to resolutions in this context it means Security Council resolutions.</p>
<p>In fact, I&#8217;ll tell you what I have in mind in particular: the territories occupied after the Israel &#8220;preemptive agression&#8221; of 1967.</p>
<p>As you know, To regain any moral credibility, and be on the right side of Public International Law, Israel should simply give those territories back, and stop settlements ASAP.</p>
<p>You know that, and reluctance to admit the problem is just slowing down any progress.</p>
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		<title>By: Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad</title>
		<link>http://www.middleastpost.com/187/sixty-years-of-nakbah-and-israel-independence-day/comment-page-1/#comment-264</link>
		<dc:creator>Ziad Khalil Abu Zayyad</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 15:45:15 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleastpost.com/?p=187#comment-264</guid>
		<description>Ruth

Maybe I don’t consider what I say a matter of emotions and false statements. Let me tell you again the center of my beliefs and ideas. Israel is occupying lands that are not a part of it. Me as a Palestinian see the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through a peace agreement that includes the right of Israel to live in the 1948 lands and that after a Peace agreements both Arabs and Palestinians should and must prevent any attack of its security. From the other side Israel gives and declares the right of Palestinians to establish their own state that must be made on the 1967 boarders including East Jerusalem, the holy places, and a fair solution for the refugee’s case. This must also include the freedom of praying for anyone that Jerusalem is important for him or her, but the control on the Mosque should be in the Muslims hands.
Ruth I don’t write in order to prove who is right. Again I respect your opinions that are built on your background of laws and culture, but at the same time I have my own beliefs that are built on my background and culture.
Considering the Palestinian Jews question, I say that if such a state could be made including everyone without racism and justice and rights for everyone, then this could be one of a the strongest states that could be made, but the problem is that it is not only a conflict of land, for our bad luck it is a conflict of religion, beliefs, and culture. I wish to succeed to living in such a state.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Ruth</p>
<p>Maybe I don’t consider what I say a matter of emotions and false statements. Let me tell you again the center of my beliefs and ideas. Israel is occupying lands that are not a part of it. Me as a Palestinian see the end of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict through a peace agreement that includes the right of Israel to live in the 1948 lands and that after a Peace agreements both Arabs and Palestinians should and must prevent any attack of its security. From the other side Israel gives and declares the right of Palestinians to establish their own state that must be made on the 1967 boarders including East Jerusalem, the holy places, and a fair solution for the refugee’s case. This must also include the freedom of praying for anyone that Jerusalem is important for him or her, but the control on the Mosque should be in the Muslims hands.<br />
Ruth I don’t write in order to prove who is right. Again I respect your opinions that are built on your background of laws and culture, but at the same time I have my own beliefs that are built on my background and culture.<br />
Considering the Palestinian Jews question, I say that if such a state could be made including everyone without racism and justice and rights for everyone, then this could be one of a the strongest states that could be made, but the problem is that it is not only a conflict of land, for our bad luck it is a conflict of religion, beliefs, and culture. I wish to succeed to living in such a state.</p>
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		<title>By: Ruth</title>
		<link>http://www.middleastpost.com/187/sixty-years-of-nakbah-and-israel-independence-day/comment-page-1/#comment-261</link>
		<dc:creator>Ruth</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 11:45:12 +0000</pubDate>
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		<description>Palestinian Jew,

1) Israel accepts the Human Rights in principle while sometimes violating them. This is similiar in all western democracies. Non-democratic societies do not accept Human Rights in principle and are much freer in violating them.

2) International Law is quite another issue. International laws are basically treaties between countries. So there are treaties that Israel choose not to sign. You probably have UN resolutions in mind, however only resolutions of the Security Council have legal status.</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>Palestinian Jew,</p>
<p>1) Israel accepts the Human Rights in principle while sometimes violating them. This is similiar in all western democracies. Non-democratic societies do not accept Human Rights in principle and are much freer in violating them.</p>
<p>2) International Law is quite another issue. International laws are basically treaties between countries. So there are treaties that Israel choose not to sign. You probably have UN resolutions in mind, however only resolutions of the Security Council have legal status.</p>
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		<title>By: Palestinian Jew</title>
		<link>http://www.middleastpost.com/187/sixty-years-of-nakbah-and-israel-independence-day/comment-page-1/#comment-260</link>
		<dc:creator>Palestinian Jew</dc:creator>
		<pubDate>Wed, 14 May 2008 11:43:49 +0000</pubDate>
		<guid isPermaLink="false">http://www.middleastpost.com/?p=187#comment-260</guid>
		<description>... and I have a question for Ziad: what do you think of the one-State solution ? I am meeting quite a lot of Jews and Palestinian Arabs (Christian and Muslims) who see in this option  a better way to achieve stability.

One secular state, with clear separation of religion and politics, under the protection of the UN and the US, that would protect and guarantee the rights of Jews and Arabs, equally, that would mix them in schools, develop poorest parts of the country (Gaza), like the reconciliation process in South Africa.

Like South Africa did 30 years ago, it seems impossible. Yet they did it. 

And Ruth, for Jews, the one state would still provide refuge for persecuted Jews from the world, under the status of refugees (if they can prove they&#039;re being persecuted).</description>
		<content:encoded><![CDATA[<p>&#8230; and I have a question for Ziad: what do you think of the one-State solution ? I am meeting quite a lot of Jews and Palestinian Arabs (Christian and Muslims) who see in this option  a better way to achieve stability.</p>
<p>One secular state, with clear separation of religion and politics, under the protection of the UN and the US, that would protect and guarantee the rights of Jews and Arabs, equally, that would mix them in schools, develop poorest parts of the country (Gaza), like the reconciliation process in South Africa.</p>
<p>Like South Africa did 30 years ago, it seems impossible. Yet they did it. </p>
<p>And Ruth, for Jews, the one state would still provide refuge for persecuted Jews from the world, under the status of refugees (if they can prove they&#8217;re being persecuted).</p>
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